Video Overview

#21 episode of “Helping B2B High Ticket Service Providers Grow – One Lesson at a Time”, with Vasko Karangeleski.

As a team leader, project developer, manager, evaluator, monitoring officer, trainer, performance coach, executive manager, governing board member, associate, visiting lecturer, facilitator, and editor-in-chief, Vasko’s experience and knowledge are vast.

He has served and worked with hundreds of organizations, with over 15 years of professional experience.

“I believe that every one of us is a superhero.”, says Vasko.

He is the Vice President of Sales at Next Sales.
Check out their website here!

His email address:

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Dancho Dimkov - The CEO of BizzBee Solutions

Dancho Dimkov
CEO of BizzBee Solutions

Vasko Karangeleski
Entrepreneur, management consultant, CEO

Interview Transcript

[00:00:06.920] – Dancho – Hello and welcome to another episode of Helping B2B High Ticket Service Providers to Grow, One Lesson at a Time. By now, I’m sure you’ve realized that I’m calling always the best people that I know and that I really think that they can add value to this podcast. And I’ve realized that in all this series, we’ve never had a Macedonian in the show. So for today, I actually wanted to invite Vasko Karangeleski, who is actually a CMC. And for those who don’t know, that’s a Certified Management Consultant, but also he’s a VP of sales at Next Sales. So, Vasko, welcome to the show.

[00:00:45.150] – Vasko – Good. Thank you for the invitation. Good to be here.

[00:00:49.070] – Dancho – Yeah. And for everybody that don’t know, like a decade ago, I was actually working for Vasko in his CAG group consulting, I think was the name Vasko… For two months, but officially he was my employer, so I had to behave. But now I wanted to give the opportunity to Vasko at least to present yourself, so people would know who you are and what’s your background.

[00:01:13.590] – Vasko – Thank you. Thank you, Dancho. I mean, we were colleagues 10 years ago, so we are colleagues now. Somehow in the same spaces, we are operating. So it’s good to have people that you’ve met and you see their growth going in the same direction as one sales. So I’m happy for that and happy to be on the show. Thank you for the introduction. I’m currently working as a VP of sales of NextSales, a US based sales development company, which provides outsource sales development to companies that have high ticket sales, mainly operating in the US market. That is my current position, working position. Otherwise, as an introduction, I’m 43 years old young, father of two boys, have been working for 20 years, I guess. There are many certificates, MBAs, faculties, and so forth. The good story in sales numbers tell everything. So it’s totally merit based, performance based, and that’s what I like in the B2B sales space. Otherwise, as an origin story, I worked as executive manager, project manager in United Nation, the executive manager of Chambers of Commerce. And some 17 years ago, I became a professional management consultant. Now, disrupted with being VP of sales, establishing the sales team in NextSales for the US market.

[00:02:46.190] – Vasko – Shortest version, I guess.

[00:02:47.600] – Dancho – And I’m curious, Vasko, what’s easier, being a consultant or being a VP of sales?

[00:02:54.210] – Vasko – Well, from this perspective, it’s easier to be VP of sales. From this perspective.

[00:02:59.420] – Dancho – In both perspectives, you, go to prospect and you try to identify stuff, but I was just curious because you have the boat under your belt.

[00:03:08.560] – Vasko – Well, if you talk in value terms or in impact terms, being a consultant is great because you see the impact not right away, but you see it after a while. And I think in both situations, there is this moment and this service value that you have carried with yourself when you consult the company, you’re not the owner of the process, right? What I work now, we are an outsource sales development, so we are just taking care of as experts in a part of the sales funnel. So anyway, it’s the company’s results and impact we are measuring. So in that sense, I guess it’s the same. This is faster, sales is faster in the B2B space. You can measure it easier. Consultant, you cannot always measure it, or the impact you see in two, three, four, five years, positive or negative, whatever impact you have. So for consultant, I think there are many jokes about it, many stories about consultants, but it’s a different topic. What I would say, the greatest thing there, is that you jump around like a bee from flower to a flower. So you’re really facilitating change as a consultant and, helping companies from different spaces use something that you’ve seen somewhere else. So in the consulting wise, we are multiplicators of economic impact and growth. In the sales, we are implementer of growth.

[00:04:49.060] – Dancho – Nice. And I’m curious, I saw that on LinkedIn, it’s interesting how our paths cross again because now you’re in sales and I’m in sales again. And what does it actually mean to work as a VP in sales?

[00:05:05.130] – Vasko – What does it take? Great question. Well, in my case, I had experience in B2B sales and I had myself personally had limiting beliefs that I’m not good in sales because I’m not good in the B2C sales myself. That’s a belief I had. Although I’m in B2B sales for 18, 19 years, all, everything I did was in the B2B space. So in this regard, understanding the sales process, we have established a fresh new department six, seven months ago when I came into NextSales. And we set up the funnel. I mean, it’s a sales organization, kind of specific because every person, every meeting, every daily discussion is about sales, sales technique, skills, tools, tech, tech. So the entire organization, everybody all across the board are, people that want to be into the sales business and want to grow into the sales business. So being a VP of sales is challenging in that perspective. However, it’s coming from a space, as you said, I’m from Macedonia. I do the outreach and most of my work for the US market. And having just for the ones that are not from Macedonia and don’t know much about it, we are talking about a country the size of New Mexico is I think the same number of…

[00:06:36.020] – Dancho – I’ll Google it up.

[00:06:37.730] – Vasko – New Mexico or West Virginia by population, that is the size of our country. So I think New Mexico is 2.2, we are 2.1, 1.9 is West Virginia. So this is the size. Well, GDP per capita is 9 to 12 times less than the entire country of where we come from compared to this.

[00:06:59.460] – Dancho – When I talk about the size of Macedonia, usually we’re like a suburb of Frankfurt or London because two million is really a small country.

[00:07:08.830] – Vasko – It is. Unfortunately, I have another example from a friend from Cairo who said, two million, that’s my municipality in Cairo. So I said, well, even worse, it could be London, New York or something like that. But we are talking about a municipality in a town in Africa. So sometimes there’s a cross check. But what to compare?

[00:07:28.080] – Dancho – Two million, but we’re still making an international impact. I mean, even with BizzBee Solutions, even with consulting, even with NextSales, we still have international impact because you’re working in the US primary. We are more primarily Europe actually oriented, although we have a lot of clients from the US as well. And maybe that was the reason why I actually wanted to invite you because you work a lot in sales and especially in business development, whether it’s training people, whether it’s enabling whole teams, or whether it’s even serving clients in that area. And I was really interested because our target audience are high ticket service providers, especially small. And this thought of you need an SDR team has crossed everybody’s minds. I mean, whenever you start a marketing agency or consultancy or software, you’re like, well, we’re going to put ads, we’re going to create some content, and let’s do some outreach in parallel. And whenever you start googling outreach is very much for corporations because you need like, I don’t know, a lot of money and a lot of people. And we’re trying to bring this process closer to the common people. So I wanted to talk about this topic with you in terms of how to actually build an SDR team.

[00:08:46.000] – Vasko – Sure. My comparison of where we come from is just that, for us, building the only place is going global, and the world is global anyway. So sales development and outreach doesn’t work when you have 10 clients in your neighborhood, right? But it does work when you have a company that needs to scale, that is in its growing mode. No matter if you’re talking about a startup with scaling, no matter if it’s bootstrapping or if it’s finance. They have external financing to go higher and they have the pressure from the investors. Bottom line, every company in the world needs clients, needs new clients. Now, as me and you, we know each other for 10 years, but we didn’t know each other until 10 years. So everybody except our family and our closest relatives that we don’t remember when we met them, all the others were at a certain time cold contacts right. So we approach them in some manner, in life, through work, through common sport. And so this is the business we’re in. When the company comes above, the market of family and friends, they could do referrals or buy, you need to call outreach. So sales development is the natural way to go, and there are many tools we can call, I mean, some call it side sales, get an SDR, sales development teams, whether you’re using outreach, only LinkedIn, only email, LinkedIn and email, LinkedIn and email and phone. Where does it work? Not all of them. Now this market is specific.

[00:10:38.400] – Dancho – And it’s interesting when we’re talking about SDR, it’s like sales development representatives. I mean when I was googling the terms, there were so many alternatives like SDRs and BDR, business development representatives. If you look at the definition, there were some distinguishing when it’s BDR, when it’s SDR. But then it comes the inside sales. And then prospecting positions, there were few. So it’s really hard. And I’ve realized that this is exactly because corporations are primarily using the outreach process. And in them, when you have 50 people, well, of course, you’re going to be creative with titles and subtitles and account executive. Okay, that’s a more understanding position. But when it comes to smaller companies, they can afford, I don’t know, one or five SDRs or salespeople in the outreach process. And then you cannot really put so many different job titles into the team.

[00:11:35.340] – Vasko – Great point. And I mean we always use buzzwords and we try to nail it down. And you work in Europe, so you know an account executive in the US is a sales manager in Europe, usually. And sometimes the titles are… like I have met companies that every person in the company was some kind of manager. So the real issue is what is the real work, and what’s the impact and what return on investment from that position we are expecting. So in sales development, I found that as well, outbound, inbound. So marketing read or cold outreach? Are we talking about sales development reps, business development reps? Every company has its own approach. What I would say is it’s not for everyone, unfortunately. Everybody needs top of the funnel, top of the spear, getting more people into the sales pipeline and starting the conversations to get to a new sale, to expand to the market. But sales development, unfortunately, is not for everyone. What I mean, it’s not for everyone, I would say, for not high ticket sales, there are other means. Then there is marketing, social media, product with growth approaches. So it’s questionable return on investment on the… If you have to sell a $20 product per company, probably sales development is not for you, not outsourced. It’s not even to build an inhouse department. I mean, don’t do it. There are other ways.

[00:13:15.060] – Dancho – We even go up to even on a €1000 service, it’s still questionable whether an SDR person is good. Above five, it’s a good starting point because you know it’s a lot of effort. And all the effort, it’s not worth for the low ticket service providers because you put qualification, you do the outreach and you do everything, and then they’re like, okay, I’ll buy your $10 service. And then they’re like, okay, do you know how many meetings you need to book in order to get the return of investment? And you get a good point there.

[00:13:47.520] – Vasko – I mean if you’re considering sales development in house or outsource, I think there are several aspects to consider. One is the lifetime value, I would say, of a client. So whether it’s recurring revenue and deal size, if it’s a recurring revenue, then in our calculations, lower than $20,000 lifetime value of a new client, it’s questionable if sales development is working. Now, it might be, but it’s questionable. Now, some might argue this, and I would like now I have an idea, maybe we can say about the mistakes of building a team on what to do the mines to go away from. So one aspect is that, the other one is the large total addressable market for the product or service the company is providing. Now, what does it mean large total addressable market? So maybe with the comparison you said earlier from Macedonia, I was discussing with a company who provides SaaS solution for car dealerships just as an example. And car dealerships in US, there are few. Covid hit them hard. Now there is a market crash, so it will be here. There are only 18,000 potential customers. But it’s still 18,000. So that’s a good total addressable market. Now, who fits your ideal client profile? How you manage that? It would not be 18,000. And coming from a small place right, the neighborhood of the town, I thought, let me think, what would it mean if I did it in my country? And then I understood that in our country, you have total addressable potential clients that would follow the ICP like 15 companies. So you can pick up the phone, get them all and in two months you know everything, right? You have the relationship. So it’s the time, the market you’re targeting, the lifetime value, the differentiated offer of the product or the service. We do cold outreach anyway, whether we have an SDR dedicated to it, whether we have dedicated SDR team, whether we have someone doing it, even experienced salespeople who know how to assemble a line and slaughter in the old terms of sales. But I’m not saying that you should do that way. You’re servicing. Great sales leaders still do, from time to time, cold outreach, use their networks and find ways to meet new people that would potentially be their customers or refer them to customers.

[00:16:49.940] – Dancho – I was just thinking about the total addressable market that you’ve mentioned. So if it’s not big enough, then it’s not going to work while doing the outreach because there is not enough in quantity to do the outreach. And when you said the differentiated offer, what do you mean by that? They need to have a USP like an upselling point, or they need to be different from the competitors. So when you reach out to someone, you would be able to say, Well, you know what? You know the rest, we are different because of, I don’t know, X, Y, Z.

[00:17:22.760] – Vasko – Yeah, sure. Bottom line, we all buy now in the B2B space, we always in sales, I see a lot of trainers say, you will be excited to provide energy. And I think in the B2B space, it works like, let’s explore the financial models of doing this or that. Because then we will see where we are at, how much it costs, whether it’s operating, whether it’s overhead, how big the return on investment would be, if any, positive or negative, right?

[00:17:50.910] – Dancho – Yeah.

[00:17:51.270] – Vasko – And how much time it would take because it involves in the equation. So differentiated offer it, from the client, right? So it might be the same product packaged or targeted specifically for a specific ideal client profile, let’s put it that way, which might be differentiated for that particular market or persona. It doesn’t necessarily have to be the unique product that no one else is doing from the competitors, right?

[00:18:25.020] – Dancho – Yeah, yeah, got it.

[00:18:26.220] – Vasko – I was thinking now, as we are speaking, I was thinking, like what are the biggest mistakes that companies make when usually, because we talk about inhouse or outsource?

[00:18:35.880] – Dancho – Yeah.

[00:18:36.730] – Vasko – We are in the outsource business for example, in make sales, we are providing an outsource sales development department, meaning not just an SDR, but also the processes, the tax tag, the recruitment training and managing of SDRs. You have a person that is doing performance reviews of the campaigns, adjusting the messaging, adding sequences. It’s the whole process.

[00:19:00.350] – Dancho – The whole department of a single person.

[00:19:03.140] – Vasko – Yeah. And usually biggest mistake when… And this is something that for someone, no matter if you’re planning to outsource or if you’re in the high ticket sales, definitely sales development makes sense. Now, whether you should do it yourself or do it outsourced, maybe that’s a topic. Maybe you had another question, but that popped into my mind like, let’s compare.

[00:19:25.940] – Dancho – I have general idea how to structure this conversation, but no, it’s usually it’s really open. So if a company, for example, a marketing agency or a software company or even a management consultant because you wear that hat before, they need to… They’ve realized that, you know what, we actually need an outreach. We’re going to call it a BDR, SDR or sales manager, regardless. And then there are two questions usually that came up in my head. First is, should I do it in-house, or should I just outsource? And the other question is, okay how should I measure the return of investment? Because we are business people. If I need to pay money, regardless whether it’s agency or hiring people, it’s still money. So if I’m investing, how would you actually just calculate the ROI?

[00:20:15.970] – Vasko – Great.

[00:20:19.550] – Dancho – Bad question?

[00:20:21.000] – Vasko – No, I think these are the most important two questions. So in house or outsourcing and return on investment are connected right. So that’s one aspect. And the second one is, are you doing it for the first time or you’re experienced in sales development and you are scaling? Because even if we have…now, I’m mentioning this from the perspective that at NextSales, we have from five people consulting company to, we have clients that are several billion dollars, even top 50.

[00:20:56.420] – Dancho – Nice.

[00:20:56.420] – Vasko – They all see in US clients. So it’s totally different scale. The process is the same. It’s not the same playbooks, it’s not the same scripts, it’s not the same cadence, of course. It’s custom made for the client, but it’s a wide scope of doing the outreach, small and medium SMBs, midmarket enterprise level and so forth. So the calculation is similar. Let’s put it that way. But let’s start from the first one, the inhouse or outsource. So let me start with the mistakes for the ones that do it first time. And I hear this a lot. We will engage a person. It can be an offshore person. We will give him a script, he’ll do the calls.

[00:21:42.220] – Dancho – He can even be a freelancer. He doesn’t even have to be…

[00:21:45.070] – Vasko – Or a freelancer. And that’s fine. I’m not saying it’s bad. The question is, do you know the process? Do you have proper training and management? You’re expecting that person to have a seriously different set of skills as you know psychology on a call, writing emails, copyright skills…

[00:22:08.170] – Dancho – The analytics to do the databases and the creative to actually do the writing.

[00:22:13.100] – Vasko – Analytic to do the databases. Managing the text tag first to get the data. Second, the text tag to outreach, to have that income how to say it integrated with the copyright. So the mails, let’s say, mail, LinkedIn and phone. So to do the sequencing, to do himself, herself, to do…

[00:22:40.620] – Dancho – A whole outreach campaign. That’s why it’s important.

[00:22:45.120] – Vasko – You might find one person like that, a freelancer. It’s not scalable. That’s one side. And the second one is usually, and this is connected to the return on investment, we meet certain costs. You’re doing outreach, right?

[00:23:01.809] – Dancho – Yeah.

[00:23:01.980] – Vasko – So you have human labor cost, of course you do. Do you have tax tag cost?

[00:23:07.500] – Dancho – Of course, monthly.

[00:23:09.460] – Vasko – Monthly, recurring cost. So do you have a cost for managing and training people? Getting to the right talent is the…

[00:23:20.960] – Dancho – Even for onboarding, not just the managing.

[00:23:23.640] – Vasko – Exactly. So to onboard… Well, managing comes later right. First is the recruiting. Second is the training and the onboarding, and then it’s the managing. And also coaching and building up people from SDR, BDR, whatever of the skill. Let’s face it, the average, I was reading some reports, the average SDR doing cold calls, it’s one and a half year as an SDR. It’s limited. It’s tiresome. It’s emotionally hard.

[00:23:59.180] – Dancho – Yeah. Being rejected all this time on the phone, Hello? No. Okay, next one. Hello.

[00:24:05.810] – Vasko – So every company has in-house or out-house. So let’s take the path that you’re setting up an SDR. Usually, it’s a VP of sales, they tell them, okay, you do cold outreach here and as a SDR you manage him or her right. So that is usually not the right way to go and it doesn’t provide success. The sales development is long, it’s costly, it brings benefits. But that’s why for high ticket sales, I would propose it because one deal or five deals a year can… You have 600, 1,000 return on investment from the services you’re paying or doing. Now, let’s take the path. Do we have time, Dancho?

[00:24:53.920] – Dancho – Well, I think that you need to be finishing about inhouse versus outsource because I also wanted to touch the return of investment to have time.

[00:25:03.680] – Vasko – Sure. So let’s go on a path. We know what we’re doing. We want to build an inhouse team. So three months minimum to recruit an appropriate SDR trainee. In the interview, it’s all that process.

[00:25:16.970] – Dancho – The onboarding.

[00:25:18.080] – Vasko – Using a recruiter, not using a recruiter, put that on the side for the ROI calculation. Yeah. any way, even if you don’t have it as an external service cost, you have it as an internal cost of time and engagement. So best case scenario, you get the right SDR in three months. You need three months to orient them. Now, let’s say you know the process. So who is preparing the scripts? Okay, you can pay a consultant to prepare the script and clean the ICP and clean the differentiated offer and that all… So it could be fast. It will be costly anyway, but it will be fast. So approximately, if you know what you’re doing, have an experienced SDR department manager, which I would propose if someone goes into that direction to have a separated person in there, inside sales manager, whatever. So you would have fully functional, full quota department based case scenario 12 months from now. So versus outdoors…

[00:26:31.380] – Dancho – It’s a commitment because it’s not like, okay, ads, you plug it in, you put few thousand euros, you don’t like it, you unplug it, that’s it. With the outreach, it does take some time.

[00:26:44.360] – Vasko – Yeah, it does. Now, in between of plugging it in and plugging it out and doing it yourself, there is the outsource version. So what is the difference? Well, the objections are they are not experts in the field and so forth, but it’s easy, there are four steps to get into revenue. Number of sales activities is their work, sales development work. Number of meeting schedules is their development work. Closing of deals, sales manager or account executive work, which is in the company, brings end the revenue to the company. So why not outsource the two which are costly, time consuming? You might calculate them as operating costs or overhead. And you will have turns, you will have issues with managing people. You will have issues in maybe testing, changing the scripts, adjusting, faking calls. In three months, the person left and you need to start the recruiting process and you just finished it. You started five months, you got the new person who will leave in two months, start all over. So with the outsourced services of professionals who have processes and tech and talent, and I think the ones that like mine, like NextSales and yours are good in this field. Otherwise, we would not grow 200 % or more annually, year by year. Let’s not be modest now. Let’s open the deal. So what is easier there? You have three to six months to be full quota with outreach, with someone else preparing the scripts, someone else taking care of the text tag, which is changing. So integrating it, having the best text tag that provides…

[00:28:38.140] – Dancho – The text is changing, Vasko, because you create the messages in the script and then you test them and then you optimize them and then you do the A B testing. So it’s not like, as you said in the earlier example, take a consultant, he write it for you. But then you also need them to continue evaluating them into more efficient and more converting messages.

[00:28:58.790] – Vasko – And new text that comes up, that’s better. Some automation comes up. Yeah, it might not exchange humans at the time being, but you know it can increase the process.

[00:29:11.770] – Dancho – Well tooling is progressing, actually. We might get to a stage where you can just call a few people and they can immediately pick it up. But until then…

[00:29:21.880] – Vasko – I mean everything is a, you know. Having the appropriate systems, the experience, how to do it, having the cooperative. Let me share an example of doing it yourself. For example, in Excel, we have a person who is like an outsource head of department who is reporting weekly and communicating with the client weekly. We have SDRs, but we have an SDR manager listening to the calls every day, preparing them on the scripts, giving them feedback, measuring their outreach. But we have also a copyright team who is preparing the scripts. You have a sales ops team who’s taking care that the emails are warmed up, that they’re well integrated, that there are no bounce rates, that generate lead lists that are according to the ICP, to the ideal client profile. Next month after the cold outreach, we get some numbers, so adjust the lead list generation. So having all those teams and all that setup and have that integrated and working appropriately, you can do it in a few years or you can do it right away. So the question is who wants what? Some for in-house, well, we will usually…What I’m hearing or what I’m reading even from reports, we want them to grow in the career and become account executives.

[00:30:37.520] – Dancho – Yeah.

[00:30:38.320] – Vasko – I’m sorry to spoil this. There was a survey, 90 % of SDRs don’t want to be account executives. And you’ll probably leave before you are able to put them on a higher position. So it’s a question of time. I don’t want to be scary. So now we are really, there is a market crash that nobody is talking about. But yet, or few people are talking about in this recent period. And when US leases, the world gets a cold. So we should consider that the time is coming. There is a crisis and I’m not scaring this, but I’m saying that for the companies that want to have, instead of having…It’s anyway a resource intensive process. And now I’m going into the ROI. So there is specialization in outsourcing and there is economies of scale. So it’s resource intensive and it can be distracting to your business. So if you’re from the people that see crisis as opportunity, I would say don’t invest long term in sales development, at least in the first run. Focus on your key strengths and find the best vendor that could provide the whole service from outside, especially in high ticket sales, someone like NextSales or BizzBee, that will help you and service you and push you on the way because we are the fresh eye on your messaging. We can help you get the message across. We will never be experts in your product or service, but we are experts in setting up meetings with sales qualified leads. So everything that needs to be done, but nobody wants to do, you can outsource it. We can do it for you.

[00:32:26.320] – Dancho – The legwork in sales, the first, the outreach, with the cold prospecting, with the warming up, with the nurturing, it’s even recommended to be outsourced. Vasko, I’m running out of time at this stage already, but I do have one more question that I have to ask you, and that was the the legacy thing. I ask everybody on this interview is that, well, you know what will work in different worlds and we want to be remembered by something. So my question here is that, what do you want to be remembered for? What’s that one goal thing that you aspire, or even you know young grandkids will say, Do you know Vasko, my grandfather? He was…What? What do you want to be remembered for?

[00:33:12.940] – Vasko – So as a young person, I think I will figure it out as I grow up. And I do think so that we have multiple identities and I’ve shifted professions and positions. So as a person who was identified with work, it’s an issue. I would say I would like to be remembered as a person who inspired people to be the best they can be, and to not be afraid to look in their dark side because that’s the first step in becoming all you can be. Because I do believe everybody is a superhero, just that we don’t spend enough time with accessing all our aspects, the dark sides, the white sides, whatever sides we have. And it’s a terrifying process, let’s say, while it lasts. But it does create muscle and thick skin and aligns you with what you really want. So I would like to… Well how will I be remembered , I don’t know. I know that there are three deaths. I think this was a Mexican belief, or somewhere I read it, it’s a Mexican. A person dies three times. Once when they learn that there is one life, second time when they’re actually dead, and third time when their name is mentioned for the last time. So I hope that the third death takes longer, right? But let’s leave this part between the first and the second, the best we can do.

[00:34:45.490] – Dancho – Yes. And Vasko, in closing, how people can actually reach out to you? How they can find you? LinkedIn or email or anything, if someone is interested to talk to you and continue this conversation?

[00:34:58.920] – Vasko – So, of course, LinkedIn, Vasko Karangeleski, is our website as a company, but you can reach me directly at on email. I think I have all my contact information even publicly available.

[00:35:20.060] – Dancho – We’re going to put this just below the video so people will be able to click it. But as you’re telling me, that means that I am allowed to publish them because I have your phone but I’m not going to put it. So that’s why I asked.

[00:35:32.680] – Vasko – I will give you my US phone, why not? But I think it’s better email and it kind of works better so we can plan our time. Yes, of course.

[00:35:42.470] – Dancho – Well, Vasko I really wanted to thank you for giving us the opportunity to sneak peek in what you’re doing on SDRs and your thoughts on how the sales should be established. And for everybody out there, the whole goal was just to start considering the SDR process. Whether you’re going to start on your own or whether you’re just going to say, let me take a freelancer or hire an agency, that’s something that it’s really tailored based on your exact needs. But whether you need an outreach or not, that’s really up to you based on your business. Is it the high ticket? Is it the lifetime value, as Vasko said, to consider these variables and take the route? Because it’s 21st century and Vasko mentioned it, and it reminded me that even in the book, how I started the Sweet Leads, Vasko, the book, the first sentence in the introduction is everybody needs new clients, either to survive or to grow. And that is my first sentence in the book. So when you mention it, I was like, I’ve seen that somewhere. So I like mind things. I think it was the saying. But Vasko, again, thank you very much for the insight that you shared with us. And I really hope that people will find it useful.

[00:36:55.990] – Vasko – Thank you. For inviting us. We are available anytime for more information and going into details and seeing if you’re a match or not. The main thing is to create value for your organizations and for us. And to jointly create value, that’s a blessing. So that’s what we are striving for.

[00:37:12.770] – Dancho – Exactly. As every business, we’re trying to add the value. So let’s stop here. Have a great day, everybody, and we’ll speak soon. Bye. Bye.