Video Overview

In this #8 episode of The B2B Outbound Marketing & Sales Automation Series, as our quest, we had Frank Tolve, the owner of LeadLeaper.

Minted with vast experience in marketing and sales, it was an absolute pleasure talking to Frank.

With a team of two, LeadLeaper has grown into a leader in its domain.

One thing you could never catch them doing is forcing their customers on long term contracts.

Working with over 60,000 worldwide customers, we can firmly say that LeadLeaper is worth a try.

You can visit their website here: LeadLeaper.

They also offer a freemium model, where you can set up a free account.
Take a look at their other pricing offers here: Pricing.

STAY TUNED for more success stories, tips&tricks, and awesome tools in the B2B Outbound world!


Dancho Dimkov - The CEO of BizzBee Solutions

Dancho Dimkov
CEO of BizzBee Solutions

Frank Tolve
Owner of LeadLeaper

Interview Transcript

[00:00:07.160] – Dancho – Hello, everybody, and welcome to another series of B2B Marketing and Sales Automation. Another day, another automation to see. For today, I’m happy to introduce you to Frank Tolve. Frank is from the U.S. and he’s the owner of LeadLeaper. So, Frank, welcome.

[00:00:25.850] – Frank – Thank you, Dancho. Good to be with you.

[00:00:28.370] – Dancho – Yeah, we’re always excited to have people to talk about B2B world. And when it comes to marketing and sales, I mean, it’s our goal to just bring it to more people into a broader audience.

[00:00:41.120] – Frank – Absolutely.

[00:00:42.420] – Dancho – So, Frank, not to burn you with the tough questions at the beginning. I just wanted to tell us a bit about yourself. I mean, at the end of the day, who is Frank? I’ve tried to find you on LinkedIn. I couldn’t. So it is a mystery.

[00:00:58.160] – Frank – I’m an international man of mystery.

[00:01:00.830] – Dancho – Exactly. With the LinkedIn automation and without a LinkedIn profile.

[00:01:05.090] – Frank – There you go, there you go. You know, it goes back to my days in the CIA.

[00:01:10.970] – Dancho – Nice. Off the records, right?

[00:01:14.570] – Frank – Of course. So I have been involved with information technology since I was a teenager. And as you can see from my profile here, I’m no youngster. I started out back in the days when we had punch cards being used on IBM equipment. And from there I moved into computing technology, both from a systems standpoint and ultimately from a sales standpoint. And I spent the majority of my career managing sales forces, both domestic and international, on a worldwide basis. I’ve sort of followed the evolution of technology from those early days with punch cards through computing, mainframe computing technology, through many computers and ultimately into networking technology, which of course, is what makes sessions like this possible today. So I’ve kind of followed the arc of all of that. And it’s been a very interesting career. I’ve had my turn in the barrel in terms of managing very large organizations. But as I get into my later years, I decided that I was going to put a lot of what I had learned over the years to use in helping people by developing solutions that could assist them in the topic that we’re going to talk about today. So that’s kind of a thumbnail about me.

[00:02:43.680] – Dancho – Nice. It’s interesting. I mean, on this tool automation, marketing, sales, automation, okay, not to put it in bad words, we usually don’t have teenagers, but it’s a young people, a developer that started some scraping. While with you, on the other hand, you have a very vast experience of marketing and sales. And, you know, on the one hand being on top of things because you really need to be in the latest trends in order to have an automation your own. So that’s really admirable. So you’re still up to date with the latest trends and the latest technologies.

[00:03:17.260] – Frank – Yeah, you know, what it comes down to is a desire to remain young at heart, and that’s through your brain, right? You’ve got to keep your mind active at all times and you have to have an inquisitive mind. And you have to ask, you know, why isn’t something possible and what can we do to make it happen? And we’ll talk a little bit about that today during this session.

[00:03:38.140] – Dancho – Yeah, yeah, exactly. That’s why I wanted to first get the audience to get to know you. And you are the founder of LeadLeaper. So how did that happen? I mean, was it a coincidence? Was it a plan or was it just, I don’t know, a quick way?

[00:03:54.350] – Frank – Actually, there were two of us. There were two of us that did it. We had been working at a, the last of my formal companies. It was a tech startup here in Silicon Valley. And it was a platform not unlike what you find with Salesforce today. The idea was to build an ecosystem back in the early 2000s. You know that you had a lot of people that were developing these apps, but no one talked to one another. So the idea of integrating those apps was simply impossible. And the founder of that company had an idea about building a platform where integration could occur. It was a very challenging proposition. And knowing what we know about computing technology today, it was something that was just years ahead of itself in terms of its employment ability. Nonetheless, it gave me the opportunity to work with the fellows that I co-founded LeadLeaper with, and we’ve been together since that time. So that was in 2000. We both left that company in 2002. And we started out on our own building software initially because, you know, in the high tech business, particularly here in the Valley, it was just impossible to hire people fast enough. And the idea was that you wanted to be able to find people quickly. You wanted to be able to screen them so that you wouldn’t waste managers time when they were doing interviews. And we came up with the idea of building software, which we ultimately patented, that would enable you to build questionnaires and to and to gather data points on individuals not unlike what people use LinkedIn today for, but much more specific, so that rather than relying on keyword searches in text, you actually had questions that you asked people about their experience or their background or their knowledge that could pinpoint whether someone was really appropriate for a job. And all of that would be done before an interview even took place, thereby saving time for the hiring manager.

[00:06:08.140] – Dancho – Qualifying or disqualifying participants.

[00:06:10.300] – Frank – That’s exactly right. And, you know, it was a very bold idea. It was a very big idea, one of the, you perhaps heard of VMware and I was in conversation with them, they were interested in what we were doing. And he made a comment to a friend of mine who said Frank’s just trying to boil the ocean. It was just that big an idea, you know, and of course, computing technology is was not then what it is today. And so you didn’t have the economies of scale and the speeds and whatnot to be able to do things on a massive scale like that. But anyway, that was the foundation of the idea. And we went through a number of evolutions working with the companies here in the Valley to tackle problems like that. Ultimately, we decided that we were going to make this thing much more expansive in the sense that we wanted to be able to tackle a broader audience. And if you think about the idea of recruiting, somebody is really just a matter of trying to locate individuals with specific skill sets and then to be able to conduct outreach to them. And we said, you know, there’s really nothing different about what a recruiter would do when looking for an individual than what someone in business development would do or somebody in sales would do to try to conduct outreach to individuals in order to broaden their reach and create more prospects and ultimately more business. That was the final evolution of the idea that took place in the early 2010s. And by 2013, we had launched the business and we had then gathered companies like IBM and HP who were interested in what we were doing. They are still users today. So here it is eight years later and they’re still using our software and they’re still paying us month to month. We don’t lock people up in long term contracts. And so and what’s really, I think the most defining aspect of who we are is that we always listen to our customers and we’re always looking for ways of pushing the envelope so that we can provide even more robust solutions in a more meaningful way. And always keeping an eye on the economics.

[00:08:34.470] – Dancho – Yeah. And Frank, you’ve mentioned big names like IBM and HP, and they were doing it using it more from the HR perspective, from the recruitment or from the sales perspective?

[00:08:45.540] – Frank – Now the salespeople, because you know, in today’s environment and this really started I don’t know if you remember Siebel Systems, that was the very first big push into what we now know as customer relationship management. And the idea back then was that you would use marketing outreach to drive demand, they would create leads and opportunities which were then turned over to salespeople to follow up on and close. That’s the theory. You know, anybody who’s sold for a day in their lives knows that that’s a bunch of baloney. But nonetheless, that was the way. But that was the way.

[00:09:28.960] – Dancho – Theory and practice. You have the framework from the academic world and then you just throw it and then you start selling from scratch.

[00:09:35.100] – Frank – Exactly. And so, you know, that was the theory back then. But, you know, in practice, in these big companies where they are using software like Salesforce, for example, it’s all great for customer relationship management, underscore the word customer. It has nothing to do with prospecting. And the idea is to build solutions that enable people to easily identify potential prospects and then conduct outreach to them. And so we saw that as the area of opportunity. And indeed, IBM and HP have for years been using our tools both for discovery. But in their cases, they have access to, you know, reams and reams and reams of data that they can acquire from their marketing department or other sources. And what they need as individual sales reps is the ability to tailor their remarks to a particular set of customers or prospective customers. And they had no ability to do that, because when you get inside the bowels of these big corporations, the people that make those decisions aren’t thinking about the lowly sales rep. They’re thinking only in grand terms. And that never translates into viable solutions on the ground.

[00:10:50.480] – Dancho – Exactly.

[00:10:51.660] – Frank – And so as we found individuals primarily from my background, because I competed with IBM for years, but then ultimately developed associations with many IBM and in conversations, they said, well, you know, we’ve got sales teams and they can use this very tool to conduct outreach on their own. And same with HP, because I had associations with people at HP, in fact, that work for digital equipment, which ultimately was acquired by HP via Compaq. So, you know, there are all these connections. But ultimately, you know, at the end of the day, someone is going to use you if they get utility out of it. And the fact that they have been doing this day in and day out for eight years, I think speaks to the fact that, A) we are a proven stable solution. And the fact that we continue to innovate is what keeps them in the fold. And we kind of like it that way rather than locking somebody up into a long term contract. What we do is we say, hey, you know, past month to month, if we’re not doing the job for you, fine, fire us. Otherwise, you know, keep going. And in the meantime, tell us what will make this thing even more useful. And so that’s been kind of the working proposition, the working thesis for LeadLeaper for a lot of these many years.

[00:12:11.370] – Dancho – Nice. I completely understand. And with big corporations, as you said, I mean, there are the BDR and the SDR people that are actually prospecting and trying to find using tools like LeadLeaper could actually make their job much easier and they could even don’t work, just push a button, stay in the office whole day and then just see if something came up or they can be more productive, whether you’re a lazy BDR or not. But if not, you can actually have a far bigger impact on reaching out to a much bigger audience.

[00:12:45.780] – Frank – Yeah, yeah.

[00:12:47.370] – Dancho – Nice. Well, Frank, if you don’t mind, I think that we would all want if you could give us a walk through of the software in terms of how it works, what you can do, what the magics and how lazy it can be for SDRs or BDRs. Or in our case, I mean, our audience, our high-ticket service providers and, you know, consultants and other people that have small businesses, they don’t have a large team of BDR and it’s expected from them to do the outreach. And in this case, instead of taking a huge amount of their time, we tried to show them that by using tools they can save a lot of time and actually focus more on the nurturing and closing and growing their business rather than into the more manual prospecting part.

[00:13:31.500] – Frank – Exactly. It’s a value chain, right. We each play a role in that. And if you think about it, what you want to do is you want to maximize the time for your BDR or your SDR or whatever you want to call them. In front of a customer, that is whether they have a video conference like this or whether they have a phone conversation or an email exchange. What you want to do is maximize that amount of time. And if the person is proficient and his or her trade, then it’s going to result in more business. At the end of the day, and I tell my customers this all the time, it doesn’t matter how easy it is for me to develop email addresses for you to conduct outreach. What matters the most is, are you how are you communicating? Are you getting your ideas across? Because any fool can take a list of perfectly valid email addresses, put a bunch of garbage in an email and never gets read. And what and so what of it, you know, is the question.

[00:14:29.680] – Dancho – We would also burn the bridges with those people. You no longer can return and build your relationship because you’ve put some silly messages and it looks like spam and they no longer want to connect with you.

[00:14:42.370] – Frank – Exactly. Now, on the other hand, put in the hands of somebody that knows what they’re doing and it becomes a very powerful, very effective tool. And I’ve got legions of customers that have told me that they’ve generated more business. I had one fellow who said, you know, I triple the amount of business that I did in one quarter just using this. And he’s now he’s on his third company. And every time he touches down, the first thing he does is he signs up for a LeadLeaper license, because he knows what’s expected of him. And this is his ticket. I have another customer who is a long time colleague of mine. She worked for me years ago and this woman turned out to be the top sales rep in her company. In fact, she developed so much business that they actually changed the sales contract and governing how much commission she would get because she was going to earn more commission than the CEO was making. And, you know, in an enlightened company, I would say, great, you know, give me ten more reps like that because they’re worth it to me. And that company, they look at the things a little differently and they decided to cut back. So, anyway, a little bit of anecdotal information for you there.

[00:16:02.290] – Dancho – Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I completely understand the goal of the salespeople is to just fly and try to connect with people and add value not just sell.

[00:16:12.460] – Frank – Right.

[00:16:12.760] – Dancho – And honestly, the automation tools should support them rather than be obstacle. And I’m really curious to see how the LeadLeaper can actually help here.

[00:16:25.140] – Frank – Yeah, so, you know, it’s interesting because our company, we started our company right around the same time that LinkedIn started and of course they had they had VC backing and honestly, you know, they had a very good idea. And it obviously has evolved into something really, really big and really powerful. And it is basically the world’s Rolodex when it comes to finding business contacts. So anybody who ignores LinkedIn, you know, does so at their peril. They, you know, you just need to recognize them for who they are. But you also have to recognize what their limitations are. And so what we saw was an opening for us to be able to fit into that ecosystem, as it were. And then, you know, we’ve got lots of competitors. We didn’t have anyone when we started, but we’ve got lots now. And that tells you that the idea is a good one. Which is fine. And so, you know, the starting point in this is that you have to have a LinkedIn license and you want to use LinkedIn in a way that will enable you to quickly identify people that are going to be suitable prospects for you. And then you want a tool that will either enable you to offload that information that you discover and put it into some back end, whether it’s some marketing automation tool, whether it’s constant contact or HubSpot or any of those or into a CRM and use the CRM for those purposes or if you’d like to use our own tool. We’ve actually built in integrated email right into this. So it interoperates with either Microsoft or Gmail or G Suite. And for our enterprise customers like IBM and HP, who hosts their own e-mail domains, we actually provide an even higher-end service, which we won’t go into today. I don’t think that there’s any point in doing that. But any of your customers who are interested in that, certainly, you know, they can drop us a note. You know, we can take that up individually. So basically, what you’re going to do is you’re going to start in LinkedIn and you’re going to do a search in LinkedIn looking for the kinds of individuals that you’re looking for.

[00:18:40.350] – Dancho – Yeah. This is the Sales Navigator, right?

[00:18:42.360] – Frank – This is Sales Navigator. There are actually six different versions of LinkedIn, and this app will work with any of them. But I will tell you that it’s really optimized for Sales Navigator. Sales Navigator is really the optimal tool. If you want to do this kind of work. I won’t go into the details of that. But it will work with any version of LinkedIn. Once you have your account set up. And when you do, you will have this little frog icon up here in the upper right-hand corner of your screen. You do your search. And here I’ve done a search for people here in the San Francisco Bay Area looking at companies with 50 to 200 people. And I’m just looking for the CXOs, whether it’s a CEO, SEO CFO or whatnot. And now to use the tool, all I have to do is just click on the extension and let me get this out of the way here. There we go. All right, so here’s my extension and what the extension does is it creates a one for one mapping of every individual that you see on the list here to the people over here. And you will see that you’ve got capture buttons and you also have something called Leads Assistant. So let’s go through this. There are three ways in which you can capture information about people. The first way is and this is typically true of recruiters, but other people may want to do a deeper dive on individuals before making a judgment as to whether or not to add them to their list. You can just open up their record and look and see. And if you want them, all you do is click the icon. And it will in the background, this is all done in real-time now, what it will do is it will develop, they attempt to develop an address. Let’s just do this again here. So here is the name of the individual, his title, you’ve got a LinkedIn picture, you’ve got the company name, you’ve got the email address and you’ve got a phone number. We provide only switchboard numbers. We do not provide direct dial numbers. And, you know, it’s a never-ending game. You know, when you’re looking for a companies like this, they could be changing their phone numbers or they may not be listed or whatnot. So the numbers are provided on as available basis.

[00:21:27.210] – Dancho – Yeah. I think that the email is the primary concern that we’re trying to find here.

[00:21:31.030] – Frank – That’s exactly right. That’s exactly right. All right. So let’s go back here now. Let’s go back to our search form. I’ll go back and click here now, so that’s one way in which I can capture people. Most of our customers honestly are looking for lots of contacts. I mean, I’ve got customers that are gathering 50 or 100000 contacts a month. You’ll never get there by clicking on each

[00:22:05.520] – Dancho – One by one.

[00:22:06.090] – Frank – Opening it up. Right. So the second way in which you can do it is simply you got the name and the title and the company. And if you want to grab them, you can just click capture and capture. You point it at the ones that you want and you’ll notice that if they’re great out like this, we were not able to produce an address. Now, that happens in cases where either the companies email domain is not visible or we don’t have it in our database or they may be using some, you know, just really strange email format. But the important thing Dancho is that each of these addresses is verified in real-time. So we are reaching out to the email server for each of these companies in order to get these individuals. We’re not going from a database. So the data is not out of date. You know, if we tell you that we got an address, you can count on it. The other thing you may have noticed is that there’s a little gray out period here before I can use the next capture button. And the reason for that is that, we are actually putting in delays into the software in order to better simulate what a human being would be like using LinkedIn, because, you know, at the end of the day, they do not like you using tools like this. There’s nothing they can do about it, but they don’t like you using it. And if they discovered that you were using a tool like this, they would warn you first and then they block you or at least put, you know, offline for a while before they will let you back in. So what we do is we build in all of this technology in order to prevent that. And, you know, going back these eight years that we talked about, we have never had anybody using our tool that has ever been blocked from LinkedIn. As long as they have a paid license. If they have a free license, all bets are off because they only gave you so many views before you’re done.

[00:24:08.100] – Dancho – Yeah. When you’re paying member with Sales Navigator, they’re a bit more flexible and stretchy.

[00:24:11.940] – Frank – Absolutely. They’re getting their pound of flesh out of you, so they’re happy. So that’s the second way. The third way is to use the Leads Assistant. And you can see here I can capture a whole page. I can capture five, ten and twenty-five at a time.

[00:24:25.560] – Dancho – And twenty-five is the maximum that LinkedIn pages gives you with a single search, because that’s I think it is one thousand people per search and it does not give beyond the one thousand.

[00:24:36.830] – Frank – Well, it depends upon the version you’re using. So in Sales Navigator, I come down here, you see, you get one hundred pages, you get one hundred pages of results for each version. If you’re in premium, there’s ten results to a page. If you’re a navigator or if you’re a recruiter, you get twenty-five results to a page. So depending upon the version you’ll either be able to see a maximum of a thousand or twenty-five hundred. But the important point that you mentioned is that there is a limit. Okay, so, let’s go back and illustrate the third way in which I can do this. So here’s my list again and now that I invoked the Leads Assistant, and I’ll just capture the current page.

[00:25:19.260] – Dancho – Yeah. Yeah.

[00:25:21.080] – Frank – And start. And I can keep track of things down here just in my windows and it’ll tell me when it’s done. And the lead capture is complete, so I can view the selected list, so let’s just take a look at what we got here.

[00:25:47.240] – Dancho – So you can actually go to your dashboard and see the progress and where it is.

[00:25:51.650] – Frank – Yeah, any time you want. Okay, so here we go. So I’ve got a capture of pages of twenty-five and you can see I got sixteen out of twenty-five on this first page and there are the remaining nine. Notice a couple of things here. I’ve got the name of the individual. They’re titled, the company, the email address, the date and time that they were added. If I don’t want to see the time, I could just come down here and the other and display just full dates. Turn that toggle off, and now I’m just down to just the date of the capture. But this is an example of where we’ve listed our customers, because some people have said, look, I do multiple captures over the course of the day and I’d like to be able to segregate by time frames. So we added that, you know. Just like we added things for color-blind people. So if I come in here and I and you’re a color-blind person, I can display these things in blue and yellow as opposed to green and orange. Another example of something that came out of one of our users. So I’ve got my list here now. You’ll see we did pretty well. In fact, if I want to find out how many email addresses I found, I can just put in the add sign in the search bar here. And you can see that I got twenty-one out of the twenty-five. So I got, what is that 84% conversion rate. You’ll also notice that there are markers beside each of these addresses either got a green dot or an orange dot. If I come down here to the legend, you can see that the green ones tell you that they have been verified. If they’re orange, they are probable. That means that the email server will not confirm that address for us and unfortunately, about half the world’s email servers are configured that way. And for those of your customers who are, you know, reaching out to people in Microsoft domains, the percentage is even higher than that. That is what it is. We’ll talk a little bit more about what we’re going to do about that a little bit later on. But the other one is, is this thing called re-verifying. You don’t see any of those instances here, but there is this thing called greylisting. And if you are a greylisted account, they will not allow an email to go through initially. If you aren’t recognized by the email server, you have to go through some protocol. This app, actually, and it’s the only one that I’m aware of that does that, where we will actually test for that and go through that protocol in order to attempt to verify an address. So you can see how quickly and easily you can assemble a list. And now you have an option, a set of options. And now let’s say that what all I want to do is I want to export these things because I’ve got it back end that I want to send these things out. I can click the export button. And now you can see I’ve got actually six ways in which I can do an export. I can export all the leads. I can export just the ones that I know have been verified or I can export just the probables. probableOkay. But I also have this very interesting feature here called “Export all that have not been previously exported”. Now, why would we do something like that? Well, it turns out that when you’re doing stuff like this, you may build a list today and come back to it tomorrow and the day after. And what you’re doing is offloading to some back end. And if in that case, you are doing that on a daily basis.

[00:29:32.980] – Dancho – You wouldn’t know where you were yesterday and then up to where are you today.

[00:29:38.830] – Frank – If I do an export, what happens then? I’m going to get a bunch of duplicates. But if you use this button called export all not previously exported, what happens is that the system will remember and it’s not just for today or tomorrow, it’s for all time. So if you use that feature and a lot of our customers, find that very handy, then you can find leads today, find leads tomorrow, find leads next week. And as long as you’re exporting just the ones that are not previously exported, you will never have a duplicate.

[00:30:15.770] – Dancho – Yep, that’s perfectly reasonable thinking and it’s very handy.

[00:30:20.090] – Frank – The other thing you might want to do if you’re an individual that wants to use the outreach features of this, is you can use the email features. And so I’ll close this out and I’ll come in here and I’ll say email all the green ones. And now it’ll bring up a dialog box for me. And I can, you know, free form type my email and send it off. In the enterprise version, which is what I’m illustrating here, there’s actually an ability to do drip emailing so you can build any number of emails on a regular basis. You also have access to templates. So, if I want to go in and into my template system and just bring up a template I can do that very quickly. If I want to put in links into, like this is going out to HP, one of our customers. This is an email, so we won’t bother with that. But I can turn any text into a link and all of that will, all of those click-throughs on links in this version will be tracked for you automatically. All email opens are tracked for you automatically as well. So once you have got your email set, you hit the send button, it’ll ask you to save it first, click send. Now, this is live data, so I’m not going to see it happen, I’m just going to show you. Now, email all 14 of the ones that were verified. That’s what I chose. If I click confirm, they’re going to go.

[00:32:09.420] – Dancho – Don’t do that.

[00:32:10.920] – Frank – I’m not going to do that. But you see how easy that is. So how long did that take us? So we’ve been doing this demo for maybe ten minutes. I built my list and, you know, one, two, three, I sent stuff out and then I can go back to prospecting or doing something else.

[00:32:26.910] – Dancho – No, actually focus on the ones that actually respond, because, for example, if Bryan, the third guy starts responding, you should actually start thinking about meaningful conversation with that guy rather than building new lists that you need to collect.

[00:32:40.380] – Frank – Well, exactly. And that’s why we’ve actually built into each of these list elements a whole dossier which you can keep notes, you can mark whether or not you’ve called them, you know, whether you’ve left messages for them, all the email history. You can even send an email right from here so that you can send him a personal note. So let’s say Brian starts corresponding with you. You can if you want to correspond right from the system or more likely what you’re going to do is you’re going to do that in your own backend because all of these emails that are going out, are going out of your account and they’re not going out of our account. You have all of these features built right into this. And it’s not I mean, that that’s sort of an add on. You know, the primary focus here is on getting email addresses and the ability to communicate quickly and easily. But if you want to use these other additional features, they’re ready for you.

[00:33:35.340] – Dancho – I see. No, it’s quite straight forward. I mean, the moment you know the target that you want, I mean, having Sales Navigator just set up the filters to fine-tune the target. Then with the LeadLeaper, you actually scraping them into a database. And from the database, you can immediately initiate the sequence of messages. And even from the LeadLeaper, you can do as a CRM, talk with people, check history, put some notes like lead management, actually CRM does the right wording, where you can actually use it in order to follow up and keep off the outreach. And if you ask me if you’re an SDR or a BDR, that’s a full-time job. I mean, actually, some people are expected to do that whole day, just collect data, find emails, sent. And using the automation could, if you’re a lazy guy, you don’t need to work anything else. If you are not lazy guy, then you can continue with the nurturing and trying to really bring some better results.

[00:34:39.420] – Frank – Right, right. So I think that’s a pretty good run through on. I mean, there’s just tons of features which we’re not going to spend time on this morning, that we’ve got other things to talk about. But nonetheless, you can see how built out this thing is. This is not like anything else that, we’ve got lots of competitors, but nobody’s doing stuff like this. You know, and especially at this price point. I mean, the features that you’ve got in the email outreach with templates and email, try open tracking and click-through tracking and all that stuff, at the price point is just it’s just absurd. I mean, we’re a factor of 10 more cost effective than many of our competitors. So, anyway.

[00:35:21.450] – Dancho – Yeah, well, here is the point. As you were mentioning, the pricing. I mean, our target, our high-ticket service providers, and that means like this podcast is more tailored to consultants, to software companies, to marketing, sales agencies. And as a consultant, we know how big is a consulting fee. So if you could actually save just one hour from a consultant’s time, actually the pricing for LeadLeaper becomes obsolete. I mean, if you save a consultant one, two, three hours or a whole day

[00:35:55.410] – Frank – Absolutely.

[00:35:55.650] – Dancho – They’ve saved a fortune, actually.

[00:35:58.290] – Frank – Exactly, exactly.

[00:36:01.290] – Dancho – So, Frank, I mean, you show how it can be used and not just by consultants and marketing agencies, but also even by corporations, because you said you had some big corporations that are using the solution. And I was also curious to ask you about, are you open to any kind of partnerships? I mean, do you have any, I don’t know, affiliate or a white label option that if someone is interested in you?

[00:36:27.100] – Frank – We do, we do. And, you know, we’re taking our time and doing this right, Dancho. We’re doing this a long time. But my partner and I are perfectionists and but, you know, saying that I want you to understand that, you know, I’m always informed by the adage, don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good. You know, we have we have a long ways to go in terms of what we want to do. But we know what we’ve got is very good. But, you know, by the same token, what we have not done up until recently is really forged alliances. And that’s because we had other things that we wanted to get in place before we were ready to do that. But as we start 2021, we are in fact assembling those. We have a couple of alliances right now. We’ve got one major alliance based in Canada that has, I think to the latest count, 70 users that they have referred to us. And in their case, they’re forgoing the alliance fee and they’re actually passing that on to their customers, which was, you know, a very good proposition all the way around. So but we are open to that. Absolutely. We do not have any intention of doing white-label, however.

[00:37:46.590] – Dancho – Yeah, no. The reason why I’m asking is that there are some marketing agencies that, you know, they want to put their logo and just show it to their audience. And the reason that’s why I just wanted to be curious to ask.

[00:38:01.170] – Frank – Absolutely. In fact, we have made provision in our website to do all the support, all the backlinking. So we will be happy to give partners like that prime billing in return for them making reference to us as well. So it’s like one hand washing the other. Absolutely.

[00:38:19.530] – Dancho – Yeah. Well, that’s why we call them alliances or partners. And Frank, you’ve also said that you had some planning for 2021 in terms of partners. But also I was curious about the roadmap on LeadLeaper. I mean, where is this tool headed? I mean, not just 2021, there is then 2022, but where do you see the vision on the future of the software?

[00:38:43.350] – Frank – Well, you know, I think one of the things that we have, sort of made a hallmark of ours is that we do not want to have product creep, we do not want feature creep, where you’re always trying to extend the features of this thing to the point where when you look at it, you say, well, I thought it was a prospecting tool, but now it’s looking like a CRM. And, you know, the moment that you do that, it creates the vision. It creates uncertainty in the mind of your prospect as to who you are and how you use it. And, oh, my God, you know, I already have invested in a CRM. Does that mean I have to throw that away and all the work that I put in? We don’t want to go there. So what we have decided is that we are just going to circumscribe this thing in terms of what it is. And what it is, is what I call a prospect relationship management tool. That is everything that’s antecedent to actually forming a customer relationship can be can logically be done and consigned to this. So in that context, then everything that we do is going to be to improve the feature set and the effectiveness of what this thing does. Now, where is the big area? I told you a little earlier when I was going through the demo that unfortunately about half of the world’s servers maybe even are configured not to verify an address. What does that mean? That means that, you know, you’re at the mercy to whether the address is good or not. And so we’ve decided to take that on. And we have started, actually it’s a multi-year effort to improve the ratio of the known valid addresses to the, you know, the probables. We are launching that technology this quarter and it will be an evolutionary technology. But our goal, if we were to have this conversation a year from now Dancho, and it’ll be a good thing to do.

[00:40:57.620] – Dancho – Of course.

[00:40:59.200] – Frank – You know, where we would like to be is for 80% of the addresses that we provide you be verified. Verified, using our own technology, because the technology to verify an address is well known as well understood. Anybody can do it. You have undoubtedly have customers that go to never bounce or places like that. You know, put your list and comes. But you know what? They all do the same thing.

[00:41:26.230] – Dancho – Yeah.

[00:41:26.590] – Frank – They can give you all kinds of spin about, you know, we triple check this and it’s just a bunch of baloney. The fact of the matter is, nobody has good answers to that. There’s only one way which I’m not going to tell you here, but there’s only one way to do it. And that’s the technology that we have now implemented. And we’re going to start introducing that into our product. And over the course of the year, it’s just going to get more and more robust. At the same time, for all of that, we’re not intending to do anything with our prices. It’s just going to be like the gift that keeps on giving.

[00:42:01.240] – Dancho – Yeah, no, no, that sounds perfect. When you said there is only one way to figure if an email bounced, back in the days when we were doing database building, we were sending dumb emails, you know, from a fake Gmail account. If there are three variations like name, first name or dots or name, you just sent to all three, two will bounce back. Then the third one is the right one. And that was for us the ultimate proof that that email actually exists.

[00:42:26.350] – Frank – That’s great. But you have to be able to do something like that at scale.

[00:42:31.180] – Dancho – No, I’m just saying when we were doing it.

[00:42:34.100] – Frank – I know, I know. But, you’re absolutely right. That’s the sort of basic idea. But you have to be able to do that in a way, there are all kinds of pitfalls in that. You have to be aware of all of those things, that’s all being built into the automation that we’re creating.

[00:42:52.540] – Dancho – Nice. So if I understand you correct Frank, your roadmap is not to go into quantity and features, but actually stick to what you know and go deeper into the quality so clients can actually even get better and better results.

[00:43:06.670] – Frank – Exactly, exactly.

[00:43:08.560] – Dancho – Nice. Well, Frank, I’m sure that everybody would like to give it a try. I mean, what’s the Web page? Do you have a free trial where people can just go on your website and click, let me give it a try and just try it on their own, whether it fits their purposes?

[00:43:25.600] – Frank – Well, I welcome anybody to go out to our website. We have a freemium model. So that means that you can set up a free account. And many of the things that I have demonstrated, other than the emailing you can do, you can export your leads. You can capsulize just like I have shown you. And you get that every month. You get one hundred free leads a month.

[00:43:50.350] – Dancho – Nice.

[00:43:51.150] – Frank – So, you know, if that’s all you need, you can go out, create your account.

[00:43:55.750] – Dancho – I don’t think that anybody will be happy with just a hundred, but I think that 100 per month, but once to try with 100 is enough to just experience the process. It’s like make a list. Download these 25, then make another list, download different 25, so you could have three or four experiments within the freemium in order to just check whether you can actually use the tool or not. So everybody that’s actually interested in giving a try, the website is and then you go to the pricing and there is a free version where you actually get 100 credits for free on a monthly basis. So it’s not a one-time thing. And as Frank said, if you needed 50 in total, it is a good free tool. But maybe as you grow your business, you’ll need more. And then you already know the tool and you know the magic that it does in background. So you can move through to the growth or professional parts. For the enterprise, it doesn’t have a pricing because if you’re an enterprise, then you need to talk to Frank in order to understand your needs and what in particular do you need from the solution.Right, Frank?

[00:45:05.330] – Frank – Exactly, exactly. That’s well put.

[00:45:08.170] – Dancho – Yeah, well, other than that, I think that we are finishing, Frank. I really wanted to thank you very much for coming on this video podcast, because we are really trying to help as many people as possible to understand that with the automation, they can save a lot of time. And that time, if they’re lazy, they can do nothing. But the goal is to actually start using it more productively and more efficiently in order to get more clients and get their business growing as fast as possible.

[00:45:38.170] – Frank – Exactly, exactly. Well, it’s been my pleasure to talk to you, this time has flown by. But I’ve enjoyed the conversation and hopefully, I’ve enlightened a few people and we welcome correspondence anytime, day and night. Doesn’t matter, we’re online, virtually around the clock, seven days a week. So, I mean, that’s the fun part about being two individuals running a business like this is that we put our our heart and soul into it and our lives. You know, it’s kind of like the restaurant business, I’m sort of married to this. My wife asks me about that every once in a while. Yeah, that is what it is.

[00:46:17.270] – Dancho – Yeah. I’ve also enjoyed this conversation, Frank, and I hope like next year, when you have some new feature, not new feature, new verification algorithm, we can have another talk and think, okay, what’s the magic sauce now? What’s the additional thing? How far it improved? And that is just a call for another meeting again.

[00:46:39.040] – Frank – Absolutely.

[00:46:39.880] – Dancho – Frank, thank you very much, again. Have a great day. And also, for everybody, have a look at LeadLeaper and I hope you really like it.

[00:46:51.980] – Frank – Well, thank you again, Dancho. It’s been a pleasure talking to you.